About Their Father's Business

Here it is, the awaited follow up to yesterday's blog post....

I am not even going to begin debating or explaining my thoughts on my egalitarian views that do belong in the church. I have said plenty, and if you desire to read more, please feel free to search my personal blog, (click here for direct access) and also look here at Equal Time for Women, a blog I write at from time to time with my friend, Pastor Deanna Shrodes.

I have to admit, just when I think I have experienced, or at the very least seen it all concerning the ignorance of those who refuse to recognize the fact women are called by God, I am side swiped by yet another picture of blatant insanity. However, with the full knowledge that when it comes to some denominations, it is more about power than money, although rarely is one seen without the other.

With that said, please let me ask a very obvious question... What in the world was the Georgia Baptist Convention and their powers that be thinking when they decided to refuse donations from entities out of sync with Southern Baptist beliefs which would include any church led by a woman pastor? (I will answer this question a little later.)

According to the statement of faith of the Southern Baptist Denomination, "only men can hold the position as head pastor, but individual churches are independent and can call whom they wish as pastor."

Okay, right there, that statement alone is just asking for an interpretation that from every reader that will ever lay eyes on the statement! It openly allowing affiliate churches to make a decision as to who they will call as pastor, gender is not exact, nor is one or the other prohibited.

In 2007, Rev. Julie Pennington-Russell (pictured above) became head of the nation’s largest Southern Baptist church with a female senior pastor when she was called to the 2,700-member Decatur First Baptist Church. Her appointment led to talk in the Georgia Baptist Convention of breaking ties with the church.

Personally, (and here is the answer to the question I asked earlier), although funding and financial support is key in the upkeep of every denomination, I feel the motivation had more to do with what privileges would be revoked without the acceptance of financial support from churches led by women in the role of senior pastor.

You see, the policy approved on November 11th allows the convention to refuse donations from churches that do not adhere to Southern Baptist beliefs which according their statement of faith would include a church with a woman in the role of senior pastor. That move would make the churches lose their association voting privileges but allow them to maintain an affiliation with the convention.

In other words, "Ladies, you can sit in on the club meetings and wear our t-shirts, but we don't want to hear from you." It's the "good ol' boys' club rearing its ugly head once again!

In the same meeting, it was decided that churches with women in lesser roles, such as deacons or youth ministers, would not be affected. Church conference leaders also could turn down gifts from questionable sources, such as alcohol distributors.

I read the entire article a few times as well as the follow up article and came away each time with the several conclusions. The SBC is missing out on something, okay, well, several things, but one that I want to touch on in particular.

According to Proverbs 13:22, "... the wealth of the sinner is stored up for the righteous."

So, even in the event that the SBC was correct in its prejudice against women in the pulpit, the financial contribution received is still BLESSED according to Proverbs 13:22!!! And for the record, if Budweiser or Coors came and wanted to write a check to Freedom House to support the work of the Kingdom, um, yeah, we would take it and use it for the Kingdom!

Without a doubt, Pastor Julie and her leadership in Decatur will not even be nudged by the poor decision of the denomination they have been affiliated with for over a hundred years.

According to Pastor Julie,“Folks here realize the mission of this church is just moving forward in all kinds of creative, wonderful ways,” she said in an interview. “I think it’s an unfortunate momentary distraction.”

She said Decatur First Baptist has, over time, become much more invested in the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, a national organization for moderate Baptists, which accepts women as pastors.

“This church really is historically tied to the Southern Baptist Convention, but lately it’s only been tied by the slenderest of threads,” Pastor Julie said.

And my favorite quote in one of the articles is what I will close with. It came from a church member, John H. Davis, 70, of Decatur, who said he’s happy with his minister.

“As long as Christ is being preached, I can accept anyone,” Davis said. “In fact, some of my favorite preachers are women.”

So, take the money or don't take the money SBC, count their votes or not... Pastor Julie and her counterparts aren't going anywhere but about their Father's business!


-"I am a pastor, not in spite of what the Bible says, but because of what the Bible says."
- Julie Pennington-Russell

Females in the Pulpit Can Keep their Money: We Don't Want It!

I came across this article that published in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. I will blog about it later... but let it be known to Pastor Julie Pennington-Russell... if the Southern Baptist Denomination refuses to accept financial and leadership blessings and contributions from your church, rest assured... there are many, many church plants and existing churches, missionaries, and para-church ministries that would be honored and privileged to partner with you....


Georgia Baptists take aim at women-led churches
Decatur First Baptist could see role diminished within Georgia Baptist Convention
By CHRISTOPHER QUINN
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution Tuesday, November 11, 2008

Georgia Southern Baptists approved a policy Tuesday aimed at diminishing the role of churches led by women pastors.

The policy is a broad one and provides the Georgia Baptist Convention the ability to refuse donations from entities out of sync with Southern Baptist beliefs. There is only one church that currently falls into that category: the 2,700-member Decatur First Baptist headed by the Rev. Julie Pennington-Russell.

Only men can hold the position as head pastor, but individual churches are independent and can call whom they wish as pastor, according to a Southern Baptist statement of faith. Decatur called Pennington-Russell in 2007.

Last year, there was talk of breaking ties with Decatur First Baptist over Pennington-Russell, said J. Robert White, executive director of the convention.

He and other leaders believed the new policy would be a more prudent move. If convention executives take action, that would allow Decatur First to remain associated with Southern Baptists, but would not accept donations from it. Churches whose gifts are not accepted lose their organization voting privileges and the ability to give to Southern Baptist missions and help programs.

Churches with women in lesser roles, such as deacons or youth ministers, would not be affected, White said. Church conference leaders also could turn down gifts from questionable sources, such as alcohol distributors.

Pennington-Russell was out of town and did not attend the convention.

“I kept waiting for someone from the Georgia Baptist Convention to call us or come visit with me and other leaders of our church to inform us that these matters were being discussed,” she said in an e-mail.

Decatur First Baptist has been in the convention since 1862 and provided leadership and millions of dollars in support over the decades.

“I assumed that a 146-year relationship was worth, at very least, a personal conversation,” she said.

“To me, the saddest ripple effect will be that some members of our church who have faithfully supported Southern Baptist ministries and missionaries through the years, often with money given from their monthly Social Security checks, will have to be told that the [convention] doesn’t welcome their support any longer.”

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/living/stories/2008/1111/georgia_baptists_women.html

Follow up article...
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/living/stories/2008/11/23/decatur_first_baptist.html

http://www.fbcdecatur.com/

Unstoppable Photos

Unstoppable Conference Recap...

I am way overdue for my Unstoppable recap. Blogging about it is bittersweet. The event was marvelous, however, it is over for this year. *Sigh*

My flight in from Chicago was easy and uneventful. No problems at security (not that I am a risk or anything!), no screaming babies, and good weather. Upon my arrival, Deanna had arranged for a woman from her church to pick Jessica Smith (Oklahoma) and me up. Her name was Celia (I hope I spelled it right!) and she greeted us with roses. It was such a sweet gesture! It was the first time Jessica and I had met face to face too. She attends my Bishop's church in Oklahoma City. We met online through the Pastoring Partners Network.

We arrived at the hotel greeted by Cathy and Lisa, Deanna's right and left arms.... as well as Deanna herself! Deanna and I squealed as we hugged each other tightly! Although we "talk" daily by phone, email or blogpost, at this point we really only see each other once a year. Still, you'd think we were joined at the hip because we never miss a beat! Goodness I miss her... :(

We holed up in our gorgeous suite for about three hours and had some good old face to face girltalk! Then we prayed together and discussed the upcoming evening. Dinner was delicious and so nice. The staff was gracious and very friendly.

Jenn Lee and the worship team did a bang up job leading us into the presence of God. Sandy Phinazee led a corporate prayer before Deanna came to minister. Sandy knows how to pull down heaven!

Deanna spoke on "A Series of Unfortunate Events," based on the book of Ezekiel, aka "Wrecks." If anyone is qualified to minister on that topic, it is Deanna. Not that she IS a wreck... it is that she has learned how to "keep on ticking" even after taking a licking! And it doesn't stop there! She "shows up" in spite of every events, circumstance and situation that would knock 99 out of 100 people out for the count! The anointing of God was all over her that night! There were women who received a touch from God, something they were desperate for.

We had a tremendous time at the workshops on Friday morning. Three hours of power packed, practical information followed by a great lunch and scrumptious fellowship with Deanna, Jenn Lee and Sandy Phinazee. How I wish for another day like that! I miss my girls from Unstoppable!

I didn't mention yet that I also met for the first time (in person), Melissa Kelly and Carrie Ball. My mother and her friend Janet joined us as well which was such a special treat!I also met Jessica Lewis and caught up with my friend, Pastor Judi from Palmetto Assembly! We met last year and I felt a more defined connection with her. Craig and I are looking forward to heading to Palmetto and spending some time with Judi and her husband Mark. There were many others that I caught up with and met for the first time. The networking and connecting at this event was magnetic. I have never been to an event with such successful networking and connecting. It was heavenly!

On Friday evening, after a great time of worship, I was honored to bring the Word. My message was entitled, "The Breaking Point." The anointing was strong in that place. The Lord ministered mightily and prophetically. The presence of God was rich and so sweet. We all just stepped right into the flow. (For those who were unable to attend, I posted a portion of my message at Take Root and Write this week...).

We stayed up WAY too late on Friday night... getting all giddy and silly as we nestled into our new relationships with each other. I cannot explain the comradarie.

On Saturday we began with a panel discussion which offered both practical and spiritual insight. Following the panel, Deanna and I tag teamed about Covenant relationships where we shared our story and offered pratical and spiritual wisdom concerning building a covenant realtionship. Martina McBride's video, "Anyway" was played and left few dry eyes in the room. After that we took communion together and cosed in prayer.

My heart was and remains SO full. I cried on the way home. Deanna kept a piece of my heart with her. And all day Sunday I was a little mopey because I missed Deanna terribly and really wanted to spend more time with her, Sandy, Jenn, Jessica, Judi, and all of my other sistas!

Unstoppable 2008 topped even last year which was very difficult to do since it was also such an incredible success. The difference was this year held a "relational theme" and a comradarie that built a sisterhood of sorts. I feel as if I made lifetime divine connections!

And THAT is why my heart is a little sad... I miss Deanna terribly and I wish I had another week with my new sistas!

I can't ait till next time but until then, we'll all be burning up the keyboards on our computers! If you didn't make it this year, make plans NOW to attend next time... you DO NOT want to miss out on this tremendous opportunity!!!!

(I posted a few photos.... there are more on the next post...)

Shattering the Glass Ceiling

Yes, I've been away from my blogdom for a little while. I've been prepping nonstop for Unstoppable and squeezing in moments to finish getting the girls ready for school to start on Tuesday. They still have one more day of summer fun to indulge in!

In the meantime, I have been GIDDY with excitement over McCain's choice of Alaska Governor Sarah Palin for his VP running mate! So, I have been itching to post about it! I have also been hankering to post about another woman... Hilary Clinton and her speech at the DNC. In true Destiny Driven style, I am going to tie these events to something near and dear to my hear t (without disclosing who I may or may not vote for!)... the shattering of the glass ceiling in both the secular and church arenas.

Let's start with Hilary Clinton. Wow, what a woman! She certainly took the Democratic Party on a wild ride! Alas, the world was not quite ready for a woman in the Commander in Chief's chair, close but no Presidential Seal. All in all, when it came down to it, I believe she portrayed the picture of "grace under pressure" when she gave a charismatic, passionate speech at the DNC last week. In my own opinion, I do not believe a man could have or ever has brought it like she did.

As she forged ahead, the question on everyone's mind... "Can she pull this speech off without sounding bitter???"... was answered within seconds of beginning....

"And whether you voted for me, or voted for Barack, the time is now to unite as a single party with a single purpose. We are on the same team, and none of us can afford to sit on the sidelines. This is a fight for the future. And it’s a fight we must win together." (Hilary Clinton DNC speech)

And whether we like it or not, she made a HUGE crack in the glass ceiling not only for all of us as women, but definitely for our daughters....

"And after so many decades — 88 years ago on this very day — the 19th amendment giving women the right to vote became enshrined in our Constitution. My mother was born before women could vote. My daughter got to vote for her mother for president."

I have to say that I never considered what that must have felt like to Hilary and Chelsea. Like her or not, THAT had to be an amazing moment for grandmother, mother and daughter. And, come on, who didn't love her little shout out to her "sista' girls" with the quote...

"To my supporters, to my champions — to my sisterhood of the traveling pantsuits — from the bottom of my heart: Thank you. Thank you because you never gave in. You never gave up. And together we made history."

Can I say I felt empowered by her speech?... minus the knocks against McCain... I hate that, but both parties do it... part of the political game I guess! Still, when Hilary quoted Harriet Tubman... I felt the Holy Ghost! Am I being a bit facetious? Um, yeah... but at the same time, I am being totally honest...

"By following the example of a brave New Yorker , a woman who risked her life to bring slaves along the Underground Railroad. On that path to freedom, Harriet Tubman had one piece of advice. If you hear the dogs, keep going. If you see the torches in the woods, keep going. If they’re shouting after you, keep going. Don’t ever stop. Keep going. If you want a taste of freedom, keep going."

Wow! If I were Barak Obama, I'd be seriously kicking myself! Why in the world did he NOT choose Hilary Rodham Clinton as his VP running mate? I don't know the answer to that, and as my husband pointed out, perhaps he actually did and she turned him down. Is Biden a better partner? Maybe, I don't know, but I do know that John McCain's choice of Sarah Palin caused every jaw in America to do one of two things... if your jaw is of the male persuasion, it DROPPED... female persuasion... it POPPED up into a beaming smile!

Governor Sarah Palin, the spokes model for 71% of women in the nation. That 71% of woman have children (60% have children UNDER 3) AND careers! Sarah Palin could not have come at a better time for a woman like me.

Sarah Palin is a born again Christian who believes in the power of the Holy Spirit! At the opening night banquet of the 2008 Alaska AG District Council, Governor Sarah Palin addressed the delegates and guests. Governor Palin spoke of her appreciation for the Assemblies of God and requested that the Council pray for both her and the State of Alaska. Superintendent Ted Boatsman, who was Palin's junior high pastor at Wasilla Assembly of God, along with Pastor Mike Rose of Juneau Christian Center, where Palin presently attends church when in Juneau,laid hands on the Governor and led the Council in prayer.

She is also mother of a large family and lives partnership in marriage with her husband, Todd. As a matter of fact, this supermom/governor/VP candidate Palin gave birth to her youngest child, Trig, in April 2008 while in office as governor. Though she announced that she was pregnant only during the start of her third trimester and one month before Trig was born, her pregnancy is reported to have surprised Alaskans, including her staff. After her water broke, on the day of Trig's delivery, Palin delivered a keynote address in Texas and then flew 8 hours to Alaska. Palin returned to office quickly, just three days after delivering Trig. The baby has Down syndrome; Palin's decision to have the baby was applauded by the pro-life community. (Information quoted from Wiki-pedia)

Her husband is no stranger to being a partner in parenting either! Like his wife, he is able to swap the traditional roles. “My husband loves being a dad as much as I love being a mom,” Palin said. “I’ve got great help there.” (quoted from Timesonline)

And, she is an obvious believer in co-pastoring as well because when in the capital she attends Juneau Christian Center where the church staff is made up of four co-pastoring couples! (Check it out here... )

She was a “hockey mom” who cut her teeth at the parent-teacher association before becoming mayor of Wasilla, a suburb of Anchorage with a population under 7,000. In 2006 she beat the corrupt male establishment in Alaska to win the governorship. (quoted from Timesonline)

She hunts, ice-fishes and is a crack shot who knows how to fire an M16 rifle. “I was raised in a family where gender was not going to be an issue,” she said. “The girls did what the boys did. Apparently in Alaska that’s quite commonplace.” (quoted from Timesonline)

Sarah Palin is sharp, she is determined and I believe she brings balance to the Republican ticket! If people are concerned that John McCain has no heart and does not want to bring our troops home, he wouldn't be able to ignore the voices of every mother who has a son or daughter in Iraq- even if he wanted to, because his partner will be there to remind him! That's right in addition to everything else, Sarah Palin's 18 year old son is headed to Iraq in September.

I listened to Sarah Palin's acceptance speech and I read the transcript over and over. I believe that Sarah can be closely compared to a modern day Esther. But THAT is another post!

Her quote... "It was rightly noted in Denver this week that Hillary left 18 million cracks in the highest, hardest glass ceiling in America but it turns out the women of America aren’t finished yet and we can shatter that glass ceiling once and for all." rang out for every woman in the world.

I am truly a fan of both Sarah Palin and Hilary Clinton. I may not be in full agreement with either of them on every issue, but one thing I am for is the equal opportunity for every person, regardless of their gender to fulfill every bit of God given potential and destiny within them! On that issue, we are ALL on the same page!

Now, where does the church fit in with all this? Some of the church, they are right with me... others, not so much.

When will the glass ceiling of the church be hammered with 18 million cracks? I'll leave you with a couple nails that need to be hit so it can be....

1.) When the church stops misinterpreting the scriptures. One scripture I am referring to is about women being the "weaker vessel." Paul uses the "vessel" metaphor when he exhorts every Christians to be "a vessel for honor, sanctified, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work"

(2Tm 2:19-21). This is true for anyone, male or female, who "names the name of the Lord". This does not tell us what Peter means by calling a woman "the weaker vessel", but it certainly shows us something he does not mean. A woman who belongs to God and names his name is no less honored, no less sanctified, and no less useful to the Master than a man who belongs to God and names his name.

(Acts 9:15). There have been times when God has intervened in the life of some person and selected that person for a special purpose. Paul was one, Mary was another. She was the chosen vessel whereby "God sent forth his Son born of a woman" (Gal 4:4). We would be hard pressed to think of any person in history more wonderfully chosen than Mary, chosen to be the mother of the Lord (Lke 1:26-56). This does not tell us what Peter means by calling a woman "the weaker vessel", but it certainly shows us something he does not mean. Among God's chosen vessels a woman was bestowed and blessed with no less greatness than a man.

A different metaphor, that of a soldier, is used by Paul when he exhorts, "Be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might. Put on the full armor of God that you may be able to stand firm..."

(Eph 6:10-13). Whom is Paul addressing? Whom is he calling to battle? Who is to gird their loins with truth and plate their breasts with righteousness? Whose feet are to be shod with the gospel of peace, and who is to grasp the shield of faith? Who is to don the helmet of salvation and to bravely wield the sword of the Spirit? Who is to march into battle against the powers of darkness, the terrible spiritual forces of wickedness? It is no battle for a weakling. Who shall be a soldier for Christ? The answer does not tell us what Peter means by calling a woman "the weaker vessel", but it certainly shows us something he does not mean. In the Lord's army women and men fight shoulder to shoulder and one is as "strong in the Lord" as the other.

Yet another metaphor, that of an athlete running the marathon, is used by the Hebrew writer when urging us to "run with endurance the race that is set before us"

(Heb 12:1-2). Who is to run this race of endurance? Whose legs are to be strong, and whose feet swift? Whose will is to get them through the pain barrier, and discipline them to make the distance? The answer does not tell us what Peter means by calling a woman "the weaker vessel", but it certainly shows us something he does not mean. In the Christian race, women and men run together without handicap. Women and men start and finish at the same lines. Women "run with endurance" the same race as men.

Some people read Peter's statement that a woman is "the weaker vessel" and say, "There you are, you see, God says that woman is the weaker vessel. That is God's law and purpose for woman. God created her to be the weaker sex." However that is a fancy. Peter is not saying any such thing, for if he were he would contradict the Genesis account...

"God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him, male and female he created them". The first two humans were different, but neither was superior or inferior to the other (Gen 1:27). Adam could not find a wife among all the creatures of flesh and blood. So God took a part of Adam himself, one of his ribs in fact, and from it created a woman who corresponded to Adam. She alone among all flesh was his equal. Otherwise she would have been unsuitable like the other creatures (Gen 2:18-23). This does not tell us what Peter means by calling a woman "the weaker vessel", but it certainly shows us something he does not mean. Woman is not a lesser being than man, for she came out of man and like him was created in the image of God. Peter himself said that woman and man are "heirs together of the grace of life" (1Pe 3:7).

Many ministers will custom build their own understanding of scripture without really studying the Word. For instance, many are quick to point out scriptures classifying women as less than, however, the Word says that God is no respecter of persons! Furthermore, at certain times in history, this same ignorance rallied people to justify slavery as well!

2.) Give both men AND women equal opportunity for fulfillment of destiny and call. The day of the "good ol' boys' club" is OVER! Although there is still a remnant of men who are not up to snuff in the corporate world, the church is shamefully behind in this arena! A dear friend of mine was once told that, "women in ministry is kind of like whipped cream. A little is real good, but a whole bowlful will make you sick!" Men who make and believe comments like that make me sick!

Pastors, if we are living in a time when a young woman can vote for her mother for President of the USA, it is high time the church recognizes that there are women in ministry ready to take on similar roles in the church and in denominational offices all over the USA.

This post could go on forever, that I am certain of! However, as a woman who wears the hats of believer, wife, mother, minister, project manager, daughter, sister, friend, and citizen... I have a list as long as this post that I must get to!

In closing, to all of the Palin haters... (and I need to stop getting riled by them...) just hush your mouths... Esther was an orphan, unqualified, unpolished, BUT... obedient... and look at what God did through her!

And to Governor/VP Candidate Palin.... heed the words spoken by another woman we both respect....

"On that path to freedom, Harriet Tubman had one piece of advice. If you hear the dogs, keep going. If you see the torches in the woods, keep going. If they’re shouting after you, keep going. Don’t ever stop. Keep going. If you want a taste of freedom, keep going. And even in the darkest of moments, that is what Americans have done. We have found the faith to keep going." (Hilary Rodham Clinton)

Love & Blessings,

Tara

A Woman to Watch! Pastor Shelisa Hull

Here is a detailed interview my friend Pastor Shelisa Hull of Valdosta, GA... it is also on my Feminine Fire column today... Enjoy!

Briefly introduce yourself (tell a little about your testimony)

My name is Shelisa Hull I am the wife to the greatest man in the world, Billy Hull and the mother to 3 boys; Caleb 15, Blake 13, and Augustine 8. I grew up in a Pastor’s home…in fact I am a 4^th generation Pastor. Unfortunately, I was the stereotypical PK. I saw a lot of hurt, religion and what I called hypocrisy. I decided that I did not want any part of “church”. I ran for a few years but one day I had a God encounter that reached my heart and went down past the bitterness and anger. Gods tender Spirit drew me in and I realized that being a Christian is not about “religion” it is about relationship. I finally understood why my parents were willing to endure so much and still love with such a great love. Well now it is my turn……I am on a mission to let EVERYONE know that life is not about do’s and don’ts life is about saying YES to God as our Father and Best Friend. We can have an intimate one on one relationship with the Creator of the Universe! What a privilege and honor. I am passionate about knowing God and teaching others to live outside the man-made box of religion and pursue RELATIONSHIP!

How did you and Billy meet?

Billy was my dad’s Youth Pastor so we met when he came on staff at our church. I can honestly say that He is a gift to me from God. He was a friend during some of the hardest years of my life and he is the one who helped me realize my worth and value as a woman and as a minister! In case you can’t tell….I just LUV him!!

What are your boys’ names and ages?

Caleb is 15, Blake is 13 and Augustine is 8. And for those who are wondering….they are ALL boy! It can get a little dirty, stinky, and loud in my house!! But I would not trade it for the world. I believe as moms that some of the very things that get on our nerves now are the things we will look back on and miss when they are grown and gone!

What is the name of your church and where is it located?

The Winners Church is in Valdosta, Georgia.

How long have you been in ministry?

I always tell people 36 years plus 9 months!! I am the fourth generation of ministers in my family so I literally cut my teeth on pews. Growing up as a PK (preachers-kid) you feel like you are in the ministry from a very early age. But, Billy and I have been in ministry together for 11 years.

What do you most enjoy doing in ministry?

There are several things…but if I had to honestly narrow it down it would be walking in the prophetic call and preaching. I love when God uses me to speak a word to someone that they know has to be from God. He will reveal deep things that they have not shared with anyone else. Their lives are forever touched by God in a special and personal way. I also absolutely LOVE preaching. It is my passion…my “sweet spot” in life. I know that I am doing what I am supposed to do when you hand me a bible and a mic!!

What is the biggest lesson you learned in ministry overall?

Let’s see, I think it would be forgiveness and relationships. If you are going to be in the ministry you will have to have thick skin and be willing to walk in a constant state of forgiveness (if you are not in ministry this may sound crazy….if you are you know exactly what I am talking about ;o). I also think relationships are key, first and foremost your relationship with God. If you ever get to the place when you are only seeking God for the next sermon to preach you are in a bad state. And I know MANY ministers that are there. Bishop Tony (my spiritual Father) always taught us to have a relationship with God first and foremost and the best messages you will ever preach will flow from that. Secondly, we have to have relationships with others that are “like-minded”. Others who know what you are going thru, who have been there and done that and will give you their T-shirt for FREE! They will encourage you and motivate you to keep pushing on!

What is the biggest lesson you learned in being a senior pastor?

Wow, this is a tougher question. The above response all applies but I think you also have to watch out for the spirit of familiarity as a Senior Pastor. There are many people in a congregation that want to be the pastor’s “Best Friend”. Now don’t get me wrong I have some very close relationships with members of our church but we have learned thru the “hard-knocks” of ministry that there are some spiritually immature people who cannot separate the line of friend and Pastor.

What is the biggest lesson you learned in being a woman in ministry?

That there are some people that won’t like you…..but do it anyway (thanks Martina and Tara!) When I first moved to Valdosta and we started the Winners Church the local newspaper at the time was doing a spot about ministers in the area. They asked if we would write a message to put in the paper. I guess they just “assumed” that Billy would be the one doing it. WRONG! It was me and the feedback was incredible, we received everything from absolute hate mail to letters rebuking me for speaking in the church! It was crazy. Well, for those of you who know me you know what I had to do. Yes, I wrote another message…this time about Women in Ministry. Obviously I ruffled some feathers and I stirred up some religious demons in this South Georgia town but PRAISE GOD! It brings me great pleasure to make demons mad and do damage to the kingdom of darkness!

If you could advise women called to ministry on one thing that is most important that they realize, or do - what would it be?

Women called to ministry need to realize that there is a proper order to things.

§ First and foremost, you are called to Love God with all your soul, strength and might and pursue a passionate love relationship with Him (as a stated earlier this part has absolutely nothing to do with ministry….this is intimate one and one time between you and your Creator for you and your Creator!!)

§ Second, you are called to be a wife. Yes ladies….you are a wife first and a mother second…..we tend to forget that. The truth is God gave you a companion to spend the rest of your life with and he comes first. One day the kids will be grown and gone and you need to still have a happy, healthy, vibrant, romantic, loving marriage.

§ Thirdly, you are a mother. I believe that children belong to God and He just blesses us with them…kind of like they are on loan while on this earth. I see my children the same way I see the parable of the talents…what are you doing with the blessings that God has given you? Are you cultivating the gifts within them, are you teaching them the principles of Gods Word so that they can be successful, are you demonstrating uncondional love to them so that they will be compassionate and love others. I guess I am a little off subject here but I fell so strongly about this stuff. Because one of the major areas that I see so many problems in Pastors and ministry leaders’ homes is the idea or concept that children are in the way or they are a hindrance to the “real work of God”. I actually had a lady ask me one time “Do you regret having three kids…..because if you were not ‘tied down’ so much you could be ministering and traveling with the best of them.” Now mind you, I had to bite my lip and take a deep breath and realize that somewhere in that ignorant statement she was trying to pay me a compliment! But it revealed a lot about her perception of the value of children. I will say it this way and try to get off my soap box…..If I did not have kids and was out there “preaching with the best of them” it would be wonderful and I could reach a certain percentage of people. However, if I take time to pour into my kids and be a “ministering mother” right here in my home…..my boys will also one day be out there with the “best of them” and all around the world the FOUR of us will impact that many more people. It is about training them up in the way they should go…..so that THEY can ALSO advance the Kingdom.

§ Lastly – Yes this is the FOURTH thing on your list….Ministry. I know if you are in ministry it is hard to wrap your mind around this fact….but it cannot be first in your life. God, your husband, then your children. I look at this part of my life as I do paying my tithe. If I am willing to keep the proper order and pay my tithe off the top of my increase it never fails that I can live better off the 90% than I ever did the 100%. The same principal applies here. If I will count God, my man and my kids as my tithe and give them my best I will have more than enough time, talent, resources, creativity and power to minister to others.

§ When you get these four things out of proper alignment burn out will always occur!

What do you feel is the most important thing a woman in your position as co-pastor can do for her pastor husband?

Pray! Pray!! Pray!!! That is the absolute must. Women have an uncanny way of touching the heart strings of God. I also think that women have intuition, insight, revelation whatever you want to call it that men don’t always have. God put it in us for a reason and it is not so we could one day say “I told you so” God gave us that innate ability so that we could combat the evil forces that we are opposing on a daily basis. Ephesians 6:12 says, “For we are not wrestling with flesh and blood [contending only with physical opponents], but against the powers, [the master spirits who are] the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spirit forces of wickedness in the heavenly (supernatural) sphere.” Now I hope I don’t offend anyone with what I am about to say…..but I really think that this verse was put into the Bible just for pastors!!(Obviously I am being sarcastic here) but I had a wake up call a couple of years into ministry when I realized that I am not wrestling with Deacon So-n-So or Elder So-n-So. We are wrestling and contending with master spirits who are trying to usurp the rule and authority of the set man and woman of the house. It makes it easier to deal with people when you realize who they are being controlled by, then you can PRAY! PRAY! PRAY! and watch God move. (If that doesn’t work try suddenly laying hands on them and rebuke the devil! Smile again :o)

What do you feel is the most important role a pastor's wife/woman in co-pastor role plays in the church?

I believe the co-pastors role is to walk in full anointing and demonstrate to the body the role of a strong woman of God in ministry. To lead by example in every area….as a wife, mother and pastor! To edify and encourage men and women both to not make excuses but to walk confident in fulfilling their call. And most importantly to not make apologies for being a woman but embrace the attributes of God that are in us that are distinctively WOMAN!

Tell us how you feel about co-pastoring and why.

I think it is the God designed way to do ministry. I believe it is evident in the way God created us. He took parts of Himself and put into man and took parts of Himself and put into woman. Men are aggressive, they have an internal drive, and they were created to be protectors and providers. All attributes of God. Wn however, are nurturers they have compassion, emotion, insight, they like things in proper order. All of which are also attributes of God. When you leave your father and mother and become one as the Bible talks about it is the perfect union of Gods attributes that allow us to become complete. A church that has a Pastor (husband) and a Co-Pastor (wife) is getting the completed design of God so that all the attributes of His Spirit can be manifested.

Give us a few survival techniques that you have found to help you in balancing being a wife, mothering, ministering and all the other stuff you do. Please is there somebody else’s answer I can see here?? (smile) I am always looking for new ideas, strategies, calendars, organizational tips etc. to improve in this area. I like every other woman in ministry out there deals with this on a daily basis. Obviously my answer earlier about keeping my life in proper alignment is the first thing I always think of. But more on the practical side, here are a few

1. Don’t be afraid to ask for help. Most of the time the hubby and kids just some how think the laundry fairy drops by in the night and puts the laundry away. When you explain to them that it is really you and you have a lot going on most of the time they are willing to chip in :o)

2. On the laundry note…I threw away all my little cheap laundry baskets and bought five big nice ones. I took a sharpie maker and wrote each family members name on their own basket. It is a breeze distributing and putting away laundry now!

3. Chore lists are a must in my house….the bible says with out a vision the people perish….so write the vision and make it plain. Well the Shelisa Version, Mom translation is ‘with out a chore list the people in this home could perish from the soap scum, dirt, and trash so Mom will write down your chores for you, she will make it plain so you can do them!!!

4. I allow myself one junk basket – I throw the mail in, magazines, color papers from the kids, a pack of crayons I found on the dining room floor etc. Anything that I just don’t have time to deal with at that moment but I want picked up. The key to making this work is when it gets full I take 15 minutes and clean it out so I don’t let myself get two basket’s, three basket’s, four….you get the picture?

5. I like to keep my room clean. My room is my sanctuary. It is where Billy and I can be ourselves; it is where we relax, where we spend our intimate times together, where we unwind from our hectic busy days. It is ours and all ours….children and messes need not knock…we don’t want any! So even when everything else in my life may seem disheveled I have one place I can go and just relax!

That is enough for now I am sure there are hundreds of great ideas floating around out there.

I know you are a strong believer in the five fold ministry and function in an apostolic/prophetic team with your husband, Pastor Billy. Tell us more about how that function benefits the local church and the Kingdom.

Lets start with reading Ephesians 2:19-22 “So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God's household, having been built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together is growing into a holy temple in the Lord; in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.”

Billy and I are "Prophetic" and "Apostolic" in our beliefs that God is presently moving in the church bringing the restoration of the five-fold ministry gifts. The restoration is beginning in the foundation, for how can we build on and grow if our foundation is faulty. I believe the reason the Church as a whole has not reached the full potential that we have at our disposal is because the role of Apostle and Prophet has not been established until recently. I also believe that the present restoration of the Prophet and the Apostle will bring about a release of the saints of God to manifest His kingdom in the earth because as the Father (Apostle) and Mother (Prophet) we are now able to raise up the sons and daughters that are going to go about doing great exploits. It really goes back to what I said in an earlier question about us working together and being placed together for the fullness of God’s attributes to be manifested.

What has the Lord been speaking to you lately?

I recently started a BLOG and the title of a new post is ‘IT IS TIME TO BE!!’ This is what I have been hearing lately! A dear friend and fellow woman in ministry Tammy Vaughan sent me an email recently and this is part of what she said.

"...You are in a set time to walk in the fullness of God. Don't hold back on ANYTHING that the Lord has given you to do. It is time TO BE!!!"

I cannot tell you how much that Word has stirred me lately. It is time TO BE~! No more holding back. No more scardy-cat!! It is time to chase a lion in a pit on a snowy day!!! (For all of you Mark Batterson fans you will know what I mean)!

As Christians we have been paralyzed by our circumstances and fear for so long that some of us have retreated back. Some of us are still hanging on but that is all that we are doing. We are not advancing; we are not pursuing our promise land or living in the fullness of increase that is rightfully ours. God is ready and has already begin to raise up a new breed of warriors who will look at their enemy eye ball to eye ball and say if is a fight you want it is a fight you are going to get because on the other side of you is the abundant life that God says I can have. In stead of looking at our obstacles as a set back look at them as an opportunity for favor, increase and promotion. It is TIME TO BE no more excuses! (More on this can be read on my blog at http://thewinnerschurch.blogspot.com/)